Article #321
Subject: Bob Nevels and Science Mike
Author: Andrew W. Harrell
Posted: 6/24/2017 04:35:10 PM

From Meetup.com Christian Jewish Healers, meets Monday Saturday 1-3 pm discussion forum

Andrew Harrell May 28
Hi Bob, the world and Christ are headed for a better relationship, not a more separate worse one. For,
God has created most of it. But, if you dwell in it, the world i mean, I wouldn't get too attached to it, for
it tends to pass away on you, you may be gone along with it, and what is left, if you don't believe in
someone who created it can be very purposeless, and empty of meaning and hope.

Bob Nevels May 30
I used to believe that as well, Andrew, and it's tantamount to saying Ghandi, Einstein, Crick and Watson,
and many others didn't have any purpose. I'm in my seventies and needn't be reminded of the brevity of
life; as the writer of James says, "one's life is like a vapor that appears in the morning and is gone by
midday". I've said the exact same words you just said to me to countless numbers of people, especially
during my years as a minister before I became a doctor. Give yourself another twenty-five years to when
Islam is the largest religion on the planet. So which God are you talking about? Allah? Brahman-Atman?
Yahweh? humans have invented religion as a way to fend those feelings off. And, it works. However, I
know many
Well, we'll talk, Andrew. I'd be glad to listen to your story.
Thank you for caring enough to share with me. Come join us and we'll talk about all of that...C.S. Lewis
and Sam Harris too.

Best, Bob

Good morning Bob, What is so wonderful about having a discussion about this, is that neither of us has
to win the argument and God might help both of us for having it, trying to understand Him or Her better.
Which is more important than trying to tell someone else what you think you understand about Him or
her, isn't it? God (see YHWH School of Christianity
http://www.yhwhschofchrist.org/discussionboard/index.cgi for a lot more about this) and I have not
heard your complete story [because you haven't talked to his enough about it] but we, God and I,
probably have heard parts of it before. Is does't matter what you say negatively about Him or Her,
Bob...like we don't exist, God and we are still going to be who we are anyway. Thanks for sharing and
have a blessed day. I hope you can show up at some of the Bible study meetings or just register at the
web-site and we can have long-time discussions about this...and I mean "long-time".

Bob Nevels,

Andrew, I appreciate you Sharing that with me. I think you are spot on about that. When I was
translating Hebrew long ago I was fascinated with how many different translation possibilities there
were with a language which has no vowels. YHWH can be translated I am what I am; I am that I am; I am
who I am; I Am; and roughly I am the basis of all that Is (The foundation of all that exists; the ground of
all being). There are numerous parallels with interpretations from other religions and even secular
philosophies. I have never said that God doesn't exist; that would take infinite knowledge which I don't
have. There are many theologians who say the concept that God "exists" actually is self-contradicting
and reduces God to only one of many other things that exist. I John 4:9 says "God is Love." That I can
easily get with. Agape love, of course; though Lewis makes a good case for all love in "The Four Loves."
I am pretty sure I understand what this means to you at this point and how personally important it is to
you and I have great respect for that. Most of my experiences with the churches I pastored and
attended were very positive. Let's get together and talk sometime. I do have, however, over three
hundred patients for whom I prescribe and monitor their medical care. Most are poor and have little in
the way of resources and the demand of their treatment is high upon my availability of time. Just
yesterday, I spent 2 hours on the phone with one insurance company that provides Medicaid coverage
to get prior authorization for a single medication. I urge you to take a look at some of Science Mike's
podcasts or order his book - also see The Liturgists podcasts and others we can talk about. Besf to you,
Andrew. Bob

Article #322
Subject: Have Bible, Will Meditate and pray with you about this
Author: Andrew W. Harrell
Posted: 6/25/2017 08:46:19 AM

Bob, had a look a Science Mike's website and one of his books. I believe, He, maybe like you, is basically
an atheist, not for rational theological reasons but because he doesn't agree with his former Baptist
Church's position that LGBT is an affirmative life style. If you try to get to know God, the Bible, Jesus and
me on this issue I think you will find we don't agree with Science Mike's arguments about this. And, I will
try to give you a couple reasons in a reply posted on the YHWH SCHOOL OF CHRISTIANITY website in a
couple of weeks. I have created a discussionboard posting on this at
http;//www.yhwhschofchrist.org/discussionboard/index.cgi Religion and Science subdirectory where you
can register and post your objections to my and a lot of other "mainstream" "orthodox" theological
positions on this complicated and difficult to deal with problem. I don't guarantee to do any better at
representing God and Jesus for you on this issue than the Baptist Church did with Science Mike.

Article #323
Subject: reply
Author: Andrew W. Harrell
Posted: 6/25/2017 01:15:14 PM

Andrew, Science Mike became an atheist when he tried to help his father, who was the Minister of Music
and Choir Director in their mega-Southern Baptist Church, to NOT divorce his mother because Mike
thought if he could find enough Biblical verses and content against divorce and for the healing of
marriages that were "broken" to show his father, his father would come to his senses and NOT go
through with the divorce. Mike also was a deacon and Sunday School teacher at this church. He was a
sincere and strong evangelical who had been saved when he was eight years old . After studying
everything about marriage in scripture, both the OT & NT, Mike concluded there was no readily reliable
Biblical framework for helping his father. Additionally, being a scholar, he noted a lot of inconsistent and
contradictory teachings about marriage and many other things. This crushed Mike as he loved both his
parents and wanted them to stay married, to be a family. His mother and father counseled with the
Senior Pastor and the Pastor told them, after 30 years of marriage, to GET a divorce because Mike's
father confessed to an affair. Mike's parents divorced. Mike, now intrigued with the historical and
theological accuracy of scripture, took courses at an evangelical seminary, and finally, not being able to
resolve this issues or reconcile much of scripture with science, lost his faith.
However, he re found it in "the waves" in Baja California three years later. That is when the Liturgists
was/were "born" -- a group of ex-Christians who re-found their faith. Thus, Mike is not an Atheist
anymore...he is a theist. Much more...to be continued. Bob; and, again, I am not an atheist either. I
sense you may not have read much about the distinctions between Theist, Deist, Pantheist,
Panentheist, agnostic (types I and II), skeptic, syncretheist, pagan, and atheist.
June 25, 2017 9:28 AM
So let's talk.

Article #324
Subject: what does the term atheist mean?
Author: Andrew W. Harrell
Posted: 6/25/2017 08:41:53 PM

Bob, lets just limit our discussion to the term "atheist" for a while. Are you sure you know what it means?
For instance, if God is a Person wouldn't you be an "atheist" if you meet Him and argued to others that He
wasn't a Person or that it wasn't possible to "know" Him even if you meet Him? Are you claiming that?

Article #325
Subject: Bob's incoherent reply and attempted recovery
Author: Andrew W. Harrell
Posted: 6/26/2017 10:44:43 AM

Andrew, you don't appear to understand some of the basic theological and philosophical constructs you
are using. You label people even when they have logically defined their position which is not part of the
definition of those terms. I have the inpression you are not well educated in these areas or you wouldn't
be resorting to disrespectful dismissals of and situation you are describing is a nonsequitor. it is
logically and experientially contradictory. And Mike believes in God, just not the Orthodox Conception of
the Christian God you believe in now but likely will no longer believe in will in twenty-five years.

..............


That last message was incomplete and got sent by accident - sorry - several sentences and phrases
were left out and there thus parts of it combine several unrelated sentences. I'll try again- the last
situation you describe is a nonsequitor both experientially and logically. No one could take that position
unless they were insane, so it appears to be a "straw man." Mike believes in a personal God and thus he
is by definition no longer an atheist. I believe a personal God is possible, therefore, I am not an Atheist.
That does not mean this personal God intervenes in Spacetime. Do you believe Hindus are Atheists?
They believe in a Tri-theism: Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Plus thousands of other lesser gods. Don't
laugh, Othodox Christians believe in angels like Gabriel and Michael who appear to have supernatural
powers on occasion when interacting with humans. They can fly for example, suddenly appear and
vanish, know the future, etc. YOU question whether I know what the term atheist is. Let's make a bet -
you tell me what you think it means & then I'll tell you what I think it means then we'll google the
meaning or go to Webster's and see which one of us is using it more accurately. I have a three year
seminary degree from a Reformed Presbyterian Seminary; I also have a master's of Arts in Religion and
Philosophy as well as a medical degree and a PhD. I studied with Francis Schaefer at Labrie in
Switzerland. Along with C.S. Lewis, Schaefer was considered the most influential apologist for orthodox
Christianity in the 20th century. His books sold many millions of copies and was one of the driving
forces in the upsurge of evangelical Christianity in the seventies and eighties around the world. It's late
and I've got to sleep, but let's pick this up tomorrow or thr next day. Thanks Andrew.

Article #326
Subject: Reprieve
Author: Andrew W. Harrell
Posted: 6/26/2017 10:49:19 AM

Bob,

I have posted your incoherent reply...along with your attempted coherent recovery at
http://www.yhwhschofchrist.org. If we both don't know what we are talking about, by my count
you have posted 9 incoherent paragraphs so far to my 5. I suggest we both take a two-week
reprieve. Talk to you later.

Best,
Andrew

Article #327
Subject: dropped from membership in Christian Jewish healers at meetup.com with sanctions
Author: Andrew W. Harrell
Posted: 6/26/2017 01:01:28 PM

Bob, I regret to inform you that you have been dropped from message posting privileges that goes along
with being a member in good standing in the rolls of the Christian Jewish meetup.com members. The
reason is that you called the moderator "incoherent" and "insane" when you yourself demonstrated this
affliction more than him in the postings. The full evidence of this is posted at the
http//www.yhwhschofchrist.org/discussionboard/index.cgi Science and Religion subdirectory. After a
mandatory two-week cooling-off period you can register there and we can continue the discussion further,
although I don't see any further point in it now since, by your own statements both you and Science Mike
believe in a personal God which is the reason I thought you wanted to talk in the first place.